MARK RYAN
Conducted
and transcribed by Allen W. Wright
 Mark
Ryan is an actor who has appeared in many plays, TV shows and movies. He
was in the original production of Evita. He has contributed to the
Arthurian legend as an assistant sword instructor and actor in First
Knight. His work includes appearances on Frasier and the new Conan
series. He was also the swordsmaster on the Canadian TV series "The Secret
Adventures of Jules Verne", and in 2000 he toured with Eric Idle in "Eric
Idle Exploits Monty Python". He is also the swordmaster on the 2004 King Arthur movie starring Clive Owen.
He
played the role of Nasir in the popular British television series Robin
of Sherwood. Nasir was the first Arab member of the Merry Men. He
also co-wrote a Robin Hood comic book story in DC Comics' Green Arrow.
And he has designed the Greenwood tarot which uses some Robin Hood imagery.
This
interview was conducted over the phone in March 1998. I'd just like to
add that while Nasir almost never said a word, Mark Ryan is a delightful
conversationalist whose comments are often punctuated by rich laughter.
[When he was in Toronto in June 2000, I went to dinner with him and some
other Robin of Sherwood fans. Back when I first did this interview I said
Mark would be the perfect person to meet in a pub -- I was right. He's
very friendly and a superb storyteller.]
AWW:
I guess I'll start at the very beginning. I understand you grew up in Doncaster.
MR:
I was born in Doncaster. [Yorkshire]
AWW:
Which is right near Barnsdale.
MR:
It is indeed. Just up the road from Barnsdale, and of course one of the
places that was reputed to be one of the hideouts of Robin Hood, and one
of the villages that Robin Hood is supposed to have visited and Little
John is supposed to have visited and all that kind of stuff.
AWW:
So, did you play Robin Hood at all when you were a kid?
 MR:
Indeed. In fact, in Sherwood Forest. In fact, in the Major Oak itself.
There is a tree called the Major Oak in Sherwood Forest which they reckon
is about 1200 years old. So, it's an old hollow oak tree, and they
reckon it was one of the hiding place for Robin Hood. Or he used to hide
his money in there. I think in truth the tree itself wasn't old enough
when in reality there was a character called Robin Hood running around.
I think there probably was. Because the whole thing I discovered about
Barnsdale is that there was a whole tribe of Hoods living in and/or around
that part of Yorkshire at the time, around 1190 all the way to about the
1230s. And we used to play in Sherwood Forest as kids. We used to go a
lot down to what is now called Clumber Park which part of Sherwood Forest
just north of Nottinghamshire and south of Doncaster.
AWW:
I remember when I was in Sherwood in 1993 and saw the Major Oak, it was
fenced off.
MR:
That's because some idiot decided to light a fire inside the tree some
years ago. In fact, I used that very analogy at the beginning of my book
The
Greenwood Tarot. I don't know if you noticed there, but there's also
a photo of the Robin of Sherwood boys. On a bench, there's a photograph
of all the work that's been done on the tree and what the tree used to
look like. When I was boy it looked completely different. It had these
big iron rings on other branches further up that were holding up the lower
limbs. And now they've put these wooden things to hold the limbs up. On
that plaque which explains the history of the tree, there is a photo of
the Robin of Sherwood boys. Which is kind of odd. Kind of nice, but kind
of odd.
AWW:
So, how did you first learn about Robin Hood?
MR:
It was just very much a part of the local history, For example, there is
a place outside of Scarborough called Robin Hood's Bay. Wherever you go
in Yorkshire, and obviously in Nottingham but more so in Yorkshire and
further north, there's Robin Hood's Well, Robin Hood's Bay, Robin Hood's
Cave. Wherever you go in Yorkshire, Robin Hood is literally all over the
place. So I grew up with it in my psyche.
AWW:
How did you end up playing a character in the Robin Hood legend?
MR:
I was doing a show in the West End [London's theatre district] 20 years
ago. June 21, 1978 we opened a show called Evita. And I played Magaldi
in that show and I went on to play Ché. A director called Ian Sharp
came to see me play Ché. And when I left the show he had me do a
movie called Who Dares Wins. In America, it was called The Final Option.
It was about the Iranian embassy siege. I was working with another writer
called Ranald Graham on an idea. We were all pals and Ian came over, and
he happened to say to me that he was working on this Robin Hood series.
And we talked about and I didn't think any more about it. Then as he was
leaving he said to me "would you like to do something in it?" And I said,
"what?" He said "it's just a character. It's not a big character; there's
no dialogue or anything. But I need someone who can really look mean."
You've got to have a good bad guy to make your good guy look better. And
this character is called Edmund the Archer. And he said it was being filmed
up in Bamburgh Castle -- another place I spent a lot of time as a kid --
and various castles and back to Bristol. And I said, "Sure, Ian, if you
want me to do something, no problem." And I forgot all about it.
And they promptly forgot all about it. About a week before they decided
to start filming, Esta Charkham, the casting lady, rang up my agent and
said "Look, Ian has just told me that Mark's playing this part. And we
haven't got anything in the budget for it, we don't know how we're going
to deal with this, but the reading is at Pinewood Studios tomorrow, and
we start filming on Monday." So, my agent said, do you want to do this?
And I said "yeah, I promised Ian I would do it. No problem, I'll busk it.
I'll go and see what happens."
So, I did the reading and everyone drove up to Bamburgh on the Monday.
The first day on set, I'd literally just arrived on the set and Ian came
up to me and said "There's been a bit of a change. He's not Edmund the
Archer, he's Nasir the Saracen." And I said okay, fine, that seems reasonable.
And he said, "Oh, by the way, how are you with two swords? Can you do a
two-handed sword fight?" I said "we'll find out."
I had done a bit of sword work. And Terry Walsh [stunt co-ordinator] and
Michael Praed [who played Robin Hood], God love him to his ever-lasting
credit, went round the back of the tents where everyone was having their
lunch and we worked out these routines. For weeks. That sword fight in
the first episodes.
About halfway the first couple of weeks filming the producer, Paul Knight,
came up to me in the bar in the hotel and said "Are you enjoying this?"
And I said "Oh yeah, it's cracking, absolutely wonderful." He said, "Good.
Would you like to stay on?" I said "Of course I would. It would be terrific,
wonderful." Ray, Clive and the boys -- we had all by that time struck up
a very strong friendship. [Ray Winstone -- Will Scarlet, Clive Mantle --
Little John.]
We had been driving around in my car and I was playing Clannad. We suggested
to Paul Knight that Clannad should do the music for the show. That's how
Clannad got the gig, because everyone was listening to "Harry's Game" in
my car. [A hit song by the Irish band Clannad.]
Anyway, I forgot all about it [being asked to stay on]. We got to the day
to where they were filming the big sword fight with Michael, and I thought
"Oh, that's it. They've forgotten. They're going to kill me off." They
were just about to stick arrows in me back, and Ian [Sharp, the director]
said "We're not doing this now. We don't want to kill him." So, I just
turned around to the camera and off they went. And that was it. I was left
sort of hanging at the end of the episode.
Once they got me in, they didn't know what to do with me. Kip [Richard
"Kip" Carpenter, series creator] came to me "I don't know what I'm going
to write for you. Have you got any ideas? Can you go away and do a bit
of work?"
So I went away and I researched. I read Runicman's History of the Crusades
which has got a lot of stuff in it about the assassins, Knights Templar
and all that kind of stuff. I talked to Kip about it and we decided that
was the way to go with it. And we both agreed he shouldn't be given many
lines. I wasn't interested in the lines. I just wanted to do action stuff,
do a lot of running around, killing Normans, that kind of thing.
And that was it. From what was going to be a week or two's work and get
killed off turned into a three year job. And adding what can only be said
is another little fractal of the picture of the Robin Hood mythos, namely
Nas or the Saracen or the Stranger from the Strange Land, got added into
the legend. So, as far as I'm concerned, it was wonderful. One of the best
times of my life.
AWW:
How do you feel about being the first new permanent member of the legend
since Alan a Dale was added? In that the Arab character has shown up several
times since you've played him.
MR:
Well, I know of a couple. If you know of any more than the Morgan Freeman
and something else, then tell me because I'm fascinated to know whether
he has become a permanent fixture. If he has, that's extraordinary.
AWW:
Well, of course, the Morgan Freeman one [in Prince of Thieves], I'd class
Barrington the Rastafarian from Maid Marian [a British comedy] as being in
the black/Arab tradition, the one in Men in Tights [Mel Brook's
send up of the Costner film]. And in the new series, they have a character
called Kemal.
MR:
You're joking!
AWW:
He's a black, martial artist -- a black, Arab kickboxer.
MR:
I haven't seen it. Is this the one shot in Romania? Never seen it.
AWW:
People who have visited my website were completely amazed that the Arab
Merry Man only dates back to the 1980s.
MR:
Well, the interesting thing is, Allen, that probably the more you delve
into this that there is a tradition, and I only found this out after I
had done the show, that the Crusaders, particularly the Templars, came
back from the Crusades with a lot of Arabic influences. They did all kinds
of deals and trades with the Assassins and the members of the Muslim sects.
And they actually brought back Arabs with them to Britain. There was actually
a small colony of Arabs living in Staffordshire at one point, and I believe
the British people called them Baileys. They were thought of as being gypsy/Arabic
blood lines. They were in little groups of villages almost called bailees.
Again there's the Arab/Jewish influence in Ivanhoe. So, in reality, there
probably was, although it wasn't common, a substantial Arabic influence.
Particularly on the Crusaders and particularly on the Templars. So all
we did really was rediscover it. We brought something out that probably
existed already.
AWW:
Did you have to learn archery for Robin of Sherwood?
MR:
I'd already done a bit before. I did a bit of riding, a bit of archery,
a bit of swordplay before we started. But we all had to go off down to
Stephen Dent's farm. The Dents are probably the most well-known stunt rider,
film, equestrian place in Britain. And we all had to go off and ride and
prove that we could ride, and sit on horses for days on end getting our
arses sore. So, all most had done a little bit before, none of were experts.
By the time we finished, we were pretty good. As with the swordplay and
everything else.
For the archery we had a guy called Gabe Cronnelly. He was the archery
coach on the Costner movie. And Gabe was an Irish open Olympic archer,
I believe. We all got coached although we had all done a bit before. I
actually did have a bow before I joined the series. We were all made to
spend hours chucking arrows about. It was great preparation. It saved a
lot of money on the set.
AWW:
I understand you went on to teach sword fighting in the Sean Connery Arthurian
movie, First Knight.
MR:
Yeah, I assisted a guy called Bob Anderson who did Highlander and Star
Wars. He choreographed the movie. But for every day for five months I fenced
with Gere [Richard Gere aka Lancelot], Ben Cross and anyone else who wanted
to have a sword fight, including the stunt boys. It was great. That was
one of the nicest jobs. It's interesting that they chose an actor to assist
a stunt guy. And there was some consternation among the stunt men regarding
that. But Bob and I got along so well; he's such a good guy and we had
a lot of fun. I was free to go off and do other things while I did that.
I did an episode of Peak Practice and a thing called Harry.
As long as I came back to the studio and fenced with everybody, it was
okay. But I really enjoyed it. It was terrific.
AWW:
One of the things that really makes Robin of Sherwood stand out
is the chemistry between all the actors.
 MR:
It's still there. In fact I spoke to Michael [Praed, the first Robin] this
morning. I spoke to Clive [Mantle, Little John] last week. I saw Jason
[Connery, the second Robin Hood and son of Sean] last Friday. We are all
still very tight. It's almost the same as going to college or something.
We went through so much. It was a labour of love going through that show.
'Cause it was hard work; it was gruelling. It's like living as a family
cheek by jowl. And you get up in the morning at half past six and get on
the set. Sometimes the weather wasn't good and we all got wet, and disgruntled
and pissed off. And other times the weather was wonderful and glorious,
and we were riding around and chopping up Normans. It was just three years
of bliss. That's all I can say. And we are still to this day very tight.
AWW:
I understand you got up to a lot of mischief. In particular, I remember
a story about a bed or something.
MR:
Yeah, the bed in the river. Oh my god. We got famous for what are called
the out takes, and that is all the things that go wrong on the show. At
one time we had one of the best funny reels that had ever been seen. Because
the boys would set things up to pull a stunt on somebody. And sometimes
it would take a week of setting these things up, including adding pages
into the script and stuff like that.
The show became famous for being fun. And people did it because it was
fun. We got the stars we got to do it, because somebody would come down
and it was our mission to take them out and get them as drunk as possible
on the first night. There were stupid little gags. I mean we used to have
mud ball fights and cream bun fights.
You'd see the guest stars going "You're completely insane. you people.
You're completely bloody mad." But you could see they were having a ball.
They absolutely had a ball. That bit of mischief on the set really made
the show crack along. Not just on the set, but off the set. We were even
worse off the set than we were on the set.
The story about the bed, which was one of the occasions when we all got
into trouble for emptying Terry Walsh's [the stunt co-ordinator] hotel
room of every object that could be removed including the light fittings
and the light sockets. We just took everything out of his room and hid
it. Unfortunately one of the things that we removed from his room which
we couldn't really hide very well was a large bed, which we pushed into
the car park. And pushed then over a mound which turned out to have a canal
on the other side. So, the bed was never seen again. We ended up paying
for that. We were doing it all the time. It was great fun.
AWW:
How did you put extra things into the script?
MR:
Well, Kip was excellent about that kind of thing. If anybody had an idea
or an objection, we were free to bring up ideas, chuck in ideas, move things
around. We used to go into a huddle with the dialogue. Well, the boys did.
I would just hang around and watch most of the time. If they had dialogue
to do, they'd go into a little huddle, work out what they were going to
do, say the lines. If it didn't work, they'd change them. That kind of
stuff.
Kip again, to his credit -- this is the sign of a good writer, he came
out and socialized with us a lot, and he got to learn our personalities
and how each of us functioned. And he wrote for us. He said very early
on, he said, "You guys are going to know these characters very quickly
much better than I do. You're going to know these people. You're going
to be doing it. So, you're going to know these people and I'm willing to
listen to anything you've got to say about it."
I think there was only one occasion when I actually said "You know, I don't
think that's right. I don't think Nasir would do that. Or I don't think
this is working." And that wasn't a Kip Carpenter script. It was when Anthony
Horowitz came on. And Anthony turned into a very, very good writer -- in
fact, one of the most famous TV writers we've got in Britain right now.
But it was complex show to get hold of, and what he wrote which just was
improbable regarding what was happening within the Merry Men. We all turned
around and said "We wouldn't do this, Anthony." And he said, "Okay" and
he rewrote it. (laughs)
AWW:
What was he having you do?
MR:
It was "The Pretender". It sticks out in my mind, where Reece [Dinsdale]
came in and was pretending to be [Arthur of Brittany, Kings Richard and
John's nephew, supposedly murder by King John], basically takes over the
band. You know, he outfights everybody and wins Maid Marion's heart. And
we just said, "it's improbable. These people live in the forest together.
They fight together; they are on the run together. It's improbable that
somebody would turn up and they would just follow this guy because he's
better at everything than Robin. It just doesn't make any sense. That he
would be able to win that." Then he comes in and does a two-handed sword
fight with me. I mean he beats everybody. He beats up Ray [Will Scarlet],
he has a two-handed sword fight with me and he beats me. He basically bested
everybody at everything. And we all said "This just isn't working. This
doesn't make any sense." So, we worked it out that best thing to do was
-- I think it was our suggestion -- that if we're going along with him
to find out what he's about, that makes more sense than us turning against
Robin, abandoning Robin for this guy. And then Robin then coming back at
the end proving that he is really the good guy after all, that he really
is the best Robin Hood sort of thing. So we had that kind of input.
AWW:
Since the series, you've done a lot of work on mythic themes. Did that
start with Robin of Sherwood or was it something you were interested in
before?
MR:
Mildly. Mildly. I can't say it was something I knew a great deal about.
Growing up, you kind of. Although I knew a lot about the Arthurian legends,
Robin Hood and all that kind of stuff, it never struck me as being something
that was new to me. It was just something I knew about. But I never went
into it to the depth I did later on. No, my experiences before that were
mainly musical theatre. I'd done two shows in the West End before that.
One being Evita and one being a show called Dean. And my experience before
that was recording and that kind of thing.
AWW:
And how did you get into the mythic themes from Robin of Sherwood?
 MR:
Oooh, I guess it was people asking me questions. (laughs) About the show
which I didn't know that much about. I'd done some reading about the whole
thing, but people kept asking me questions at conventions, like fan conventions
in the US, to which I didn't really know the answers. I started getting
intriguing by some of the images myself in the show. Although we were aware
of the show at the time in terms of some of its themes and some of its
imagery. It wasn't till a few years later when people kept coming up to
me and saying "Have you any idea how symbolic and how important that show
was in terms of the effect it had on the Pagan community?" And about bringing
forward some of the ideas like Herne the Hunter that people were hungry
for. It was extraordinary the power that that image had for people. And
that's when I started to get interested. And you know I had to go back
in a way and backtrack to my childhood memories and say "Oh, I see, that
makes sense. I see where that fits." So a lot of stuff grew out of Robin
of Sherwood. I'm not saying it's totally responsible for that. But
in my own life what it did do was reawaken stuff I already knew, had it
my head and obviously opened up new things that I was not aware of at all.
AWW:
What sorts of mythic themes do you see in the Robin Hood legend?
MR:
Oh god, in the legend or in the show?
AWW:
Both.
MR:
I think the show itself has touched on so many different complex areas.
But I'll bring up two. One was the Templars, the idea of the Knights Templar.
The other is the whole concept of a man living in the forest who is not
necessarily the only man that takes on the mantle Robin Hood or Robin i'the
Hood, and that he is seen by the people as a semi-magical character who
fighting against Norman, Christian oppressive class system. I think that
probably is near as damnit as is truthful. That was the situation. I mean
you can go from there where you want. I mean within the Templars and the
whole knights' chivalric orders and the Plantagenets and John's history
with the Lionheart. I mean there is so much. It is rich in history and
with symbolism.
Within the old legend itself, my personal belief is that there are historically
several real Robin Hood characters who were actually remembered in the
pipe rolls, which are the royal household lists of people who worked the
royal households. And there was actually a Robin Hood who worked for Edward,
I think it was Edward II, who was arrested for stealing wood from Sherwood
Forest. Not for killing a deer, but for stealing firewood. He was either
going to be sent to prison or he could fight for the king. So he decided
to fight for the king and became a very famous warrior. And the king offered
him a place in the household and he became a gamekeeper. He lived as a
gamekeeper for the king for about a year and then he got bored with that
and vanished, and apparently went back into the forest from whence he came.
So there are several real Robin Hoods dotted around history. I believe
probably people took the mantle of Robin Hood because they were highwaymen,
robbers living on what was called Watling Street or the Great North Road
which runs up the spine of Britain from London to York. And York was where
the Exchequer was kept at that time. London wasn't where the money was
kept. The money was kept in York. And around York there are nine Knights
Templar preceptories; so whatever they were guarding, they were guarding
it seriously.
So, the layers within the show are multiple. There's all the legend of
the Green Man and nature and nature in man and man in nature and all that
stuff. There's all the stuff to do with bows and the mysticism of archery
and the symbolism of archery. It's so deep, it's so rich, we could go on
about it for hours.
AWW:
How did you end up designing a tarot deck based on various Greenwood legends?
 MR:
I got interested in tarot some years ago. And I actually bought a deck
for a then girlfriend of mine. She wasn't really that much interested,
but I found the imagery fascinating. And didn't really think about it anymore.
But wherever I went, particularly when I came to America, I went into a
bookstore, somehow they are more readily available here than they were
in Britain. Or I had never seen a variety in Britain that I've seen here,
particularly the Bodhi Tree. I was just looking, and I got interested
in the imagery and the cultures and what speaks to people in the imagery.
And I bought two or three packs and just played with them, toyed with them,
didn't do any reading with them, per se. I was interested in the imagery.
I found them very pretty, and I was trying to grasp the psychology of how
this works, what these things symbolize. So, I read a lot about that, and
I began to see what it meant: how the Major Arcana stand for 22 states
of personality or the human condition within a person. And I began to get
into the Jungian side of it. I began to understand the psychology of it,
the symbolism and the history of the symbolism. So I was quite interested
in all that kind of stuff.
And Chesca [Potter, co-designer and illustrator of Mark Ryan's Greenwood
Tarot Deck] was living in my house at Streatham [in South London] at
one time when she was homeless and she was house-sitting for me. We sat
talking about tarot and Robin Hood and all the Greenwood legends and stuff
like that. She says I said it, and I say she said it, but we both said
at some point it would be very interesting to a Robin of Sherwood
tarot. There already one called Robin Wood or something which it was interesting
but I didn't really think got to the depths of this stuff, got right down
into it. Because there's a whole, again, mythos to do with animals and
shamanism and all kind of stuff. We were talking about that. I said "Well,
I'm fascinated by that idea. It's an interesting idea. But if you base
it on the Qabalah [Jewish mysticism], which is one of the systems that
is mainly used for tarot, I don't understand it. I don't get it. It's not
a European tradition, Qabalah. It's interesting, but it's too intellectual
for me. It's not instantly assessable."
And she said, "Well, there is the wheel of the year." We talked about the
Wheel of the Year, which I knew a little about it, but not a lot. We took
her deck, which I believe was the Rider Waite deck and laid it out on my
living room floor in Streatham. In the wheel of the year, using her cards.
And lo and behold, it literally fell onto the floor almost. We aligned
the lovers in balance with Beltane and we put Death and the Devil with
Samhain. We looked at it when we laid it out and went "Wow, that is very
interesting. That must have been done before. Somebody must have done this
before. They must have put these images and these states at this eight-spoke
wheel of the year." Because it's so obvious it must have been done before.
I ran up a couple of people we knew and so did Chesca. We talked to John
Matthews [writer of many, many book and designer of tarot decks] about
this. We said "John, can you relate to this?" We explained what we had
done and how it worked, and he went "God, I wish I'd done that." (laughs)
And he said "No, no one's ever done that." So, we rang a couple of people
and somebody put us in touch with a publisher. We had a publisher that
instantly wanted to take it, but they didn't have the resources to do it
the way we wanted to do it. We went to see HarperCollins. And HarperCollins
immediately said well, "Yes, this is a breakthrough. This is never been
done before. We've never seen it done like this." And it's extraordinary
because it's a rediscovery, it fits it so well. And we grew into the whole
thing about the Shaman and the animals and changing the Minor Arcana a
little bit and changing the Major Arcana a bit. But yes, we got the nod,
and God know, that was about 1991 or 1992. It took three years then to
do the research and put it all into some kind of system that works.
But it works. I have used it and people know are using it, and it's a system
which is very easily assessable.
AWW:
I found it interesting that you say it's used more meditative purposes
than predicting the future.
MR:
Yes, I don't believe in predicting the future. There was a whole section
in the book about quantum mechanics and a lot of stuff was chucked out
of the book, because they wanted to get the little book into that cardboard
thing. So, a lot of stuff is missing out of that little book. But one of
the chapter was on quantum mechanics and possibility and probability, and
why I say you cannot tell the future. You know, you cannot say somebody
is going to get hit by a bus. What you do is get a snapshot of reality,
psychologically and physically at the moment you do the reading. But as
soon as you look at the reading, you've changed everything. You've changed
it because you may get a card, and go "Hmmm, then I won't do that then,"
or "I'd better look at that." So, nothing's fixed. It's all a fluctuation.
So, I don't believe you can tell the future and say absolutely this is
what's going to happen. I don't think the universe functions that way.
I think what happens is that there is an infinite number of possibilities
and probabilities, and what tarot does is reflect your inner state and
the elements in the question you've asked that you should look at. It does
that extraordinarily accurately. And that is because of synchronicity.
Synchronicity means you will always get a meaningful reading or a meaningful
reflection of the situation. I don't like to read for people I know. I
tend to read mainly for people I don't know, sometimes I don't even want
to know their names are and I don't want to know what their question is.
I recently did it at a con in San Francisco, and people were going "Oooh."
I don't want to know. Because I think sometimes it can muddy the water
if you read for somebody and you know too much about them. You tilt one
way or another. Where I don't like to do that. I like to say "Look, this
is what you've got." And without a shadow of a doubt, it is usually extraordinarily
accurate. I had two people that day who went "That is bizarre.", and these
were both complex questions involving couples and I read for two couples
back to back. Both of them went "that is extraordinary."
AWW:
What sorts of images from Robin Hood do you think are helpful to someone,
like in the Wheel of the Year?
 MR:
Well, it's a journey. I said this in the book, the Greenwood Tarot is a
journey. None of these things are a fixed points. You start in the centre
and you move around. And I believe that the Major Arcana cards stand for
all of the emotions and the people that we as individuals can be at any
given time. You sometimes put the fool into bat if you're going into a
job. You know, that leaping off into the void. And as an actor, I continually
walk into voids. I am continually joining somewhere, I don't know who's
going to be there, what's going to happen, I don't know what it's about.
But I've just got to take my guts in my hands and walk into the void and
see what happens. And if I put in the fool, the fool loves that playful
side of taking the blind step off the cliff edge. And that's part of my
fool type things. Other times I've got to be Strength. Other times I get
to be the Green Man. I get to be sitting at my table, you know, with my
feast and goblet of wine and all that kind of stuff. We all are those people,
both male and female. They live in our psyche to one level or another.
And it depends on whether those particularly suit who you are, suit your
culturally view of the world. That's why there are all different kinds
of packs. Because people look at a certain pack and go "I really relate
to these pictures. I see. I get them, I understand it." And depends on
where you've been brought up, what your background is, what you find personally
interesting in tarot. But eventually people who are into tarot find a pack
that accurately represents them. The people in the pack are people they
recognize in themselves. So all those cards are bits of people's personalities.
In the Major Arcana anyway.
I couldn't pick out one card and say, "These are empowering cards." I could
say that the journey itself is empowering. I use this again as an analogy.
If you find there is a part of your personality that you really have problems
dealing with, like the Hanged Man, or the Blasted Oak as we put it. If
you don't like being in that situation of not knowing, of being hung upside
down and having to wait for fate to move or the universe to move -- if
you don't like that, there's no point in pushing that part of yourself
away and locking it outside the house. Because it's like a poltergeist.
It will sit outside the window, tapping on the door, saying "Let me in.
I'm part of your personality. You got to deal with me." And eventually
you've got to bring this guy in, and say "Okay, I've got to learn to be
patient. I've got to learn to deal with just waiting." That journey, I
think, is the most complete journey that anyone can take. To realize that
they have all these different facets of their personality, and they can
make them all work positively for them, if they understand them all, not
reject them. That's why I emphasize the whole thing about going on the
meditation.
AWW:
Besides designing a tarot deck around Robin Hood themes, you actually wrote
a Robin Hood story in a Green Arrow annual [about a comic book hero who
uses fights crime with a Robin Hood motif]. And as a comic fan, I'm on
a mission to mention comic books on my website as much as possible.
[This
was Green Arrow Annual #4 from 1991, the 50th anniversary of the superhero.
In the comic, Green Arrow and his girlfriend the Black Canary visit Nottingham.
Dinah, the Black Canary, buys an old magical necklace which places her
mind in the body of Maid Marian in a fantasy adventure. The characters
often sound like their Robin of Sherwood counterparts with one of them
being Rassan, a mostly silent Saracen based off Nasir.]
 MR:
I spoke to Mike Grell [writer and sometimes artist of Green Arrow when
Mark Ryan worked on it in 1991] this afternoon. We've got another project
we're trying to get organized. Mike's a busy man these days. But yes, Mike
Grell -- we'd been pals for two or three years, and he asked me if I'd
be interested in writing this 50th anniversary comic. And I immediately
said yes, obviously.
And that was great fun because that was based on a book, some of the adventures
I had with a guy called Andy Collins. Andy wrote a book called The Seventh
Sword. He had a group of psychics which did what they call psychic questing,
which was basically finding lost objects by remote viewing. I went out
with these guys several times on some of their adventures. It was great
fun and very interesting. A lot of that stuff to do with Ellen. Ellen was
a real old British goddess, a guardian goddess of sacred trackways and
wells. [In the comic, Ellen of the Wells is Maid Marian's spiritual mentor.]
And a lot of that was based on Andrew's adventures. One of his books actually
is called the Black Alchemist, and I nicked his title. He was supposed
to get a credit on the comic, and he never did.
AWW:
Ellen struck me as a Herne for Maid Marian, her empowering figure.
MR:
Well that is what Ellen is. Ellen is basically the Greenwood archetype
of Herne. [Robin's mentor in both Robin of Sherwood and the comic book.]
She would be the Greenwoman in the tarot deck. She is the female, polaric
deity to Herne.
AWW:
When you were in Toronto some years ago, you mentioned ---
MR:
I love Toronto! Let me say to all people in Toronto, first of all, that
I think Toronto is one of the nicest cities I've ever been to in my life.
And I don't know why nobody's ever invited me back. I must've upset somebody.
(laughs)
[Breaks
off for a second, as I mention how a friend would dearly like to invite
him to a Pagan convention in Toronto. This might still happen. And I'd
just like to add that Mark Ryan has been very helpful to my friend.]
AWW:
When you were in Toronto, you were mentioning about doing a comic series
with Mike Grell called The Hooded Man using the Robin Hood legends.
MR:
Yeah, that's right. And unfortunately, DC [Comics, publisher of Green Arrow,
Superman, Batman and other heroes] really messed us about on that. They
decided that Robin Hood had been overdone that year, and they held off
for quite a while. And we never got it off the ground. Which is a shame
because I thought it was a nice idea. But again, we have another idea which
I came up with; so, we're looking at doing something else. We've just never
got round to doing it again. We've talked about this for six years, about
doing something else. We know have an idea that we both really like.
AWW:
Could you please tell me about some of the things you had planned for the
Hooded Man?
MR:
It was basically sort-of Robin of Sherwood with a much darker, more
magical aspect. This figure really was a spirit of the forest. There was
a lot that was not quite human about him. He wasn't Swamp Thing, but he
was the spirit of the animals and the wildlife and the trees basically.
And he was the avenging angel of the forest. That was the original concept.
AWW:
I think you said there was going to be a lot of Templar lore in it?
MR:
Yes, there was a lot of Templar stuff, regarding the history of the Templars
and particularly Yorkshire and England. The Templars were going to be the
bad guys on this particular occasion.
I think everybody had been burned out on Robin Hood. [This was at the time
of the Costner and Bergin movies and Robin Hood-inspired science fiction
comic by DC Comics.] They said "we like the idea", but after about a year
they said "No, we can't do this." And by then, it was too late to get anybody
else interested. We may revisit it. I may go back and have another go at
it.
DC has all changed so much. I mean our main guy there, Mike Gold has left,
Dick Giordano's left. We everybody we knew that was a player there seems
to have bailed out shortly after this all became rather confusing about
what direction they were taking. So, who knows?
AWW:
I've heard that there might some mystical connection to Robin Hood coming
up in Green Arrow in the near future.
MR:
Oooh. I cannot answer. I don't know about the direction they are taking
the character in, unfortunately. When we speak at the moment, Mike's got
a script in LA. that we talk about. And I've got a script that he's helped
me with that is getting interest here in Hollywood. We haven't talked about
Green Arrow for months.
Longbow Hunters [Mike Grell's 1980's revamping of Green Arrow] was absolutely
terrific.
AWW:
I saw a lot of Robin of Sherwood imagery in Mike Grell's run on
Green Arrow.
MR:
He's a great guy -- Mike. He's one of the nicest people I've ever met as
well as being a very interesting character. We're very good pals. He's
a top man.
 AWW:
You were actually a character in one of his comics for one panel if I'm
not mistaken.
MR:
In fact, I'm probably in more than one. In fact, Mike has a habit of putting
people in. If you tell me the one that you think I'm in...
AWW:
It's a golf archery tournament in Green Arrow: The Wonder Year. There was
a group of archers that Green Arrow was with, and one looks a lot like
you. [I'll see about getting this image on this page.]
MR:
(laughs) There are other characters in other of his comic books. He's used
not only me, but very other characters. But I'm not going to tell you which
they are, your readers will have to guess. He puts people in. I won't tell
you who they are because I'm sure some of their professions in reality
reflect what they do in the comic books. I know a very close friend of
mine who is in one of the comic books who physically not only looks like
the guy Mike drew but does exactly what he does in the comic book. It's
kind of like "Oh, that's bizarre." Unless you know these guys, you wouldn't
know. But if you scour Mike Grell's work you'll see all kinds of characters
that are really people he knows.
AWW:
One of my friends just bought your comic book. She didn't know you had
done one.
MR:
I pop up all over the place occasionally. I like that variety. I like being
able to keep writing and acting and singing. All that kind of stuff.
MR:
I'm going down in April to do a play in San Diego at the San Diego Globe.
Which I'm very honoured and very excited about. It's a play called Neville's
Island which ran in the West End of London. It's the first time it's been
done in California. It's a four-hander about four British blokes who get
stuck on an island in the Lake District on an outward bound course. It's
very funny and it's very dark. We start rehearsals in April. We open at
the end of May and we run all the way through June and into July.
And I'm supposed to go back to the UK to do a movie called Legionnaires
which there's been a lot of talk about on the Internet, particularly in
Britain. Legionnaires is a big science fiction project with Walter Koenig
[Star Trek's Chekov and Babylon 5's Bester], Jason Connery [the second
Robin on Robin of Sherwood], myself and my wife, Robin. [Robin Curtis,
Saavik from the Star Trek III and IV.]
AWW:
I saw you doing a bit on Frasier a few months ago.
MR:
Actually, it's just been repeated, I believe. I had an e-mail today from
somebody in Upstate New York that it was being repeated again tonight.
There's talk about doing it as a regular spot, the pub spot. But whether
they will or not, we don't know. [Mark played Winston, the bartender at
a British themed pub.]
And I did a Conan the Adventurer as well which was interesting. There were
lots of swords about, but they didn't give me one. Well, they gave me one,
but I never got the chance to get into it. I was hoping to get a sword
fight with Red Sonja, but we never got around to it. It was all a bit rushed.
It was great fun to do. Great cast, very funny. Nice guys. How they get
through that stuff in a week, I don't know. It was shot down in Mexico.
AWW:
How long did it take to film an episode of Robin of Sherwood?
MR:
Two weeks. We had two weeks to do an hour.
AWW:
When you did the third series of Robin of Sherwood, did you break it up
because it was twice as long as the others?
MR:
We started filming in February. And we started filming very early. Those
early winter scenes in some of those episodes -- my God, I tell you, the
old wind whistles through the black leather, there's no doubt about that.
All wearing thermals [long underwear] underneath our stuff, it was bloody
freezing. You know, there's one scene where we walked up a river. I think
it was one of the first episodes. It was the one where we were being impersonated
by a band that look exactly like us. ["The Betrayal"]. We walk up this
river after these guys, and there was ice floating in this water. It was
extraordinary. Yes, we started filming in February and we finished sometime
in September. We were all physically exhausted. Exhausted. Hard work.
AWW:
I should let you go, but I was wondering if you could please talk about
the legacy of Robin Hood. Why has it lasted over 600 years?
MR:
I think the legend is an archetypal legend. We have all got a bit of Robin
Hood in us. This is what it's about, I believe, is that Robin Hood is the
part of us -- and sometimes it's the best part of us -- that doesn't want
to see oppression. That doesn't want to see the big bully beat up the weak
person. Doesn't want to allow greed and avarice to be in control. And will
stand up and say "Whatever risk in myself to this," stand up and say "this
is a moral stance I have to take, and this will not do." I think Robin
Hood is part of each of our psyches, the idea of living with a kind of
group of people fighting a huge monstrous machine, like the Norman machine
was, against all odds and for the right reasons.
The human condition hasn't changed. We may have faxes, we may have the
Internet, we may have cars and jets and God knows what else, but internally
emotionally, we haven't changed a great deal for the last five thousand
years, probably twenty thousand years. We still go through the same emotional
processes that we did 20,000 years ago. So all these things are still with
it. We've got much more stuff now. We've got more knowledge about the universe.
But internally, we're still on the same emotional journey.
And Robin Hood is linked deeply to the part of us which is about justice
and about rebellion and about standing up for the weak against the poor.
And that is why it endures. Like the Arthurian legend, it speaks people
to people on deep, core, emotional level that we still don't really understand
today. It's that important.
AWW:
Thank you very much.
The
On Line Greenwood Tarot Handbook by Chesca Potter (the artist)
Robin of Sherwood on DVD and Video
Those in the
Europe are lucky. Network Video has released the series on both video
and DVD. Both the VHS tapes and DVDs are recorded in PAL format
which cannot be viewed on most North American DVD players or VCRs. However,
the DVDs are "Region 0" and so if you have a player capable of playing
PAL format (some models of Apex and Sampo as well as many DVD-ROMs), then
you don't have to worry about the Region code differences. Network did
produce a limited run of VHS tapes in NTSC North American video format,
but now those can only be found on places like Ebay.
Update!!!
For a limited time, Network Video is offering a complete set of Robin of
Sherwood DVDs in North American, Region 1 format. This is only available
through Network's website: www.networkvideos.co.uk
Buy Robin of Sherwood on PAL-format DVD (Not Playable on most North American DVD players) on Amazon.co.uk
Robin
Of Sherwood: The Complete Series PAL DVD This boxed set features all 26 episodes from the three seasons and includes a bonus disc.
Robin
Of Sherwood - The Complete Series 1 PAL DVD
Robin Of Sherwood - The Complete Series 2 PAL DVD
Robin Of Sherwood - Series 3 - Part 1 PAL DVD
Robin Of Sherwood - Series 3 - Part 2 PAL DVD
 Buy the following PAL VHS (Europe, not playable on most North American VCRs) tapes on Amazon.co.uk
Robin Of Sherwood - Series 1 - Episodes 1 to 3
Robin Of Sherwood - Series 1 - Episodes 4 to 6
Robin Of Sherwood - Series 2 - Episodes 1 to 4
Robin Of Sherwood - Series 2 - Episodes 5 to 7
Robin Of Sherwood - Series 3 - Episodes 1 to 3
Robin Of Sherwood - Series 3 - Episodes 4 to 6
Robin Of Sherwood - Series 3 - Episodes 7 to 10
Robin
Of Sherwood - Series 3 - Episodes 7 to 13
In North America (where the series aired under the title Robin Hood), four two-hour episodes have been released
on VHS by Playhouse Video. This series, called "Robin Hood ... the Legend",
features the episodes "Robin Hood and the Sorcerer", "The Swords of
Wayland", "Herne's Son" and "The Time of the Wolf". However, these tapes
have been discontinued.
Buy Robin Hood and the Sorcerer on North American format VHS on Amazon.com
Buy The Swords of Wayland on North American format VHS on Amazon.com
Buy Herne's Son on North American format VHS on Amazon.com
Buy
The Time of the Wolf on North American format VHS on Amazon.com
Legend by Clannad. The soundtrack
from the Robin of Sherwood TV series. This music by
one of Ireland's finest bands won a BAFTA award. It's
mystical Celtic music with a touch of rock.
Buy it on Amazon.com Buy
it on Amazon.co.uk
If
you're interested in seeing the series or in joining the official RoS fan
club Spirit of Sherwood, please write to Christine Haire at ChrisRHood@aol.com.
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